ALLES GUTE INDYMEDIA: Wir schauen 5 Jahre zurück auf die Battle of Seattle
indymedi@ 05 Dec 2004 10:23 GMT (übersetz von indymedi@)
democracy_wto
Wir hatten eine gemeinsame Vision, vor fünf Jahren, bei den WTO Protesten in Seattle. Wir blickten hinter die Grenzen, die uns trennten. Wir sahen wie Menschen zusammen kamen, aus unterschiedlichen politischen und kulturellen Gebieten und aufstanden, in einer Art und Weise, wie wir sie in diesem Land seit Jahrzehnten nicht mehr gesehen haben. Wir sahen wie friedliche Proteste eine der mächtisten Institutionen der Welt zerschlug und wir sahen ein System, das von unseren Stimmen benommen und verängstigt war.
Der 30. November 1999 repräsentierte einen triumphalen Moment für den zivilen Widerstand weltweit gegen das globale Wirtschaftssystem, welches privaten Unternehmen mehr Macht einräumt, als den Regierungen. In den Morgenstunden des 30. November 1999 trafen sich zehntausende AktivistInnen von überall aus der Welt in den Straßen von Seattle, um das Treffen der Welt Handelsorganisation, dem undemokratischen, international agierenden Forum der neoliberalen Globalisierung zu stören.
Der Konflikt wurde teilweise durch die brutale Antwort der Polizei auf die überwiegend friedlichen DemonstrantInnen weltweit berüchtigt. Das Datum erinnert auch an die Geburt des Unabhängigen Medienzentrums (IMC): www.indymedia.org, was sich seitdem in ein globales Netzwerk mit über 150 unabhängigen Medienzentren entwickelt hat.
[ AUDIO: This is What Democracy Looks Like ]
[ "5 yrs on.." - Bericht auf Indymedia New York | Originalbericht - Indymedia Santa Cruz ]
Das Independent Media Center ist ein Netzwerk von kollektiv betriebenen Mediengruppen für radikale, genaue, leidenschaftliche und wahrheitsgetreue Berichterstattung. Wir arbeiten aus Liebe und Inspiration für Menschen, die trotz der Wahrheitsverzerrung durch kommerzielle Massenmedien und dem Widerwillen die Anstrengungen einer freien Menschheit abzudecken, weiter daran arbeiten wollen, die Welt zu einem besseren Platz zu machen.
Das Independent Media Center (www.indymedia.org), wurde 1999 von unterschiedlichen unabhängigen und alternativen Medienorganisationen und AktivistInnen aufgebaut um basisdemokratische Berichterstattung über die Proteste gegen die Welt Handelsorganisation (WTO) in Seattle zu liefern. Das Zentrum, das auf der 'aktiven' Software errichtet wurde, entwickelt vom Community Action Technology/Catalyst Kollektiv in Sydney, diente als eine Schnittstelle für Informationen für JournalistInnen und bot minuten-aktuelle Berichte, Fotos, Audio- und Videoberichterstattung auf der Internetseite. Man benutzte das gesammelte Material, das Independent Media Center Seattle (seattle.indymedia.org) und produzierte eine Serie von fünf Dokumentationen, schickte das ganze an einen Satelliten und bot es freien Medien zur Sendung an.
Das Zentrum brachte auch seine eigene Zeitung heraus und verteilte sie in ganz Seattle und per Internet in andere Städte. Ausserdem produzierte es hunderte Audio-Segmente, die im Netz und Studio X einem 24 Stunden Mikro und Internet Radio in Seattle gesendet wurden. Die Seite, die ein demokratisches Open-Publishing System benutzt, verzeichnete über 2 Millionen Zugriffe und wurde von America Online, Yahoo, CNN, BBC Online, und zahlreichen anderen Seiten genutzt und verlinkt. Durch ein dezentralisiertes und autonomes Netzwerk errichteten im darauf folgenden Jahr hunderte MedienaktivistInnen ihre Independent Media Centers in London, Kanada, Mexico City, Prag, Belgien, Frankreich und Italien. Es bildeten sich IMCs auf jedem Kontinent und es werden immer mehr.
Mehr Informationen findet ihr auf IMC Frequently Asked Questions.
US Activists are all Part of a CIA CULT - Just ask them...
Acula Ramer 02.Dec.2004 19:25
There is something very fishy (cultish) about all US activist groups – they will not discuss their goals, strategies or time frames. They waste billions of dollars on education that they have no reason to believe could ever achieve anything positive – and every reason to believe will cause damage to the causes that they claim to support.
United-students@lycos.com
http://arizona.indymedia.org/news/2004/11/23465.php) ,
http://americas.org/item_15926)
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1802&e=1&u=/washpost/20041128/ts_washpost/a16443_2004nov27)
United-students@lycos.com ; >See an Aid Project (that sounds relevant) at: 
http://andeancircle.blogharbor.com/
It is limiting to think about the USA or national politics. It is better to not believe that the USA exists anymore. The USA is an empire of corporate, trade and, military alliances. This is what we fight and what should be addressed. We are engaged in a world war – what Chavez and many anti-globalization / Zapatista activists call the Fourth World War – 4WW. Six hundred million capitalists against the rest of the world's 6000 million – 6 billion.
– United-Students
Relevance & Economic Terrorism:
Fiascos of Free Trade and Activism
By United-Students (Arizona Affiliate)
What in the world are activists trying to do?
Why do they fight trade agreements that they cannot stop, that are already done deals, and that distract activists from what they should be doing??? Like trying to explain their goals, strategies and tactics... oh and some kind of time frame.
When I talk to people and explain what is going on, they express the feeling that either these USA activists work for the CIA/FBI or else they just like to feel good, pretend to be cool or feel compelled to do something – even if it is negative!
Read the workshop outline produced by Ecosolidarity Andes (
if you want to know what is going on in South America and why fighting trade is so meaningless –
What’s the goal ?
The following presentation was our contribution to the workshop by Ecosolidarity Andes. (A Synopsis of the workshop is found at the end)
“For this we joined Mercosur, in order to liberate us of the North,”
proclaimed Hugo Chavez, Presidente de Venezuela
The Andean Trade Negotiations: Fiascos of Activism:
Relevance – Activism: WHO; WHAT; WHERE HOW??? Alternatives...
By Acula Ramer, United-Students
The USA movements for change, for Fair Trade or against hyper corporate capitalism (War, Sustainability...) have to come together soon to oppose the USA Empire. In order to understand why this needs to happen – and how it can be accomplished -- one must better understand the world.
It is limiting to think about the USA or national politics. It is better to not believe that the USA exists anymore. The USA is an empire of corporate, trade and, military alliances. This is what we fight and what should be addressed. We are engaged in a world war – what Chavez and many anti-globalization / Zapatista activists call the Fourth World War – 4WW. Six hundred million capitalists against the rest of the world's 6000 million – 6 billion.
Cheer up, it is our great fortune that what we face is a global war – a war without borders, fronts or rears ... a war of everything against everything. Because such a battle is possible to mobilize within and to win. Whereas, politics and activism are completely dead in the USA – and this is a permanent condition – a truth...
We can discuss this at another time – ad nauseum if you insist – but we feel that it is a waste of time to examine in detail just how big the victories of W. Bush have been – or will be. – The USA has been moving to the right for almost 30 years -- surely since Reagan's victory in 1980 politics has been dead in the USA – and all education has failed since then.
(For a look at the fascist John Kerry see:
(Or for a peek at the psychosis known as the USA consider:
TUSCALOOSA, Ala. -- On that long-ago day of Alabama's great shame, Gov. George C. Wallace (D) stood in a schoolhouse door and declared that his state's constitution forbade black students to enroll at the University of Alabama.
He was correct...
If Wallace could be brought back to life today to reprise his 1963 moment of infamy outside Foster Auditorium, he would still be correct. Alabama voters made sure of that Nov. 2, refusing to approve a constitutional amendment to erase segregation-era wording requiring separate schools for "white and colored children" and to eliminate references to the poll taxes once imposed to disenfranchise blacks.”
A United-Students Thesis:
Our thesis is that only through extending our conceptions of politics – which is another word for Power – extending it beyond the imaginary borders of nations can we create a better world.
There is nothing political that any USA people can do. To work with a political party or vote in anything that the Democrats believe in is not positive. Go back to square one and build a base through aiding Andean children – or be creative and send us your ideas.
Nowhere could this perspective (the hopelessness of US politics) be more true than in the realm of free trade talks. The only USA politician in modern history to be consistently anti- NAFTA or trade was H. Ross Perot.
No one in the anti-globalization movement can produce a study on alternatives that is viable, reasoned and contains instructions on how to achieve it. This would have been important 25 years ago (UNCTAD was working on it) and such advice would still have been useful even 10 years ago. Now these protests have lost their purpose (whatever that was) and they are meaningless. In the US protests actually create a negative backlash that confirms in the average persons mind that these loud, dread head kids are trouble makers – which they are since they have no plan, strategy or goals that they can express (or that anyone in the US could relate to).
Goals: What is the Goal of activists at the ACTA or in opposing USA free trade agreements?
1.) Education – US people, radicals – How?; Where is the evidence or theory that education can work in the US – Seems to most of us that the election of W Bush puts the lie to that (or shows that lies have more power than truth).
2.)Stop AFTA - FTAA – WTO – How? What good would that accomplish? Maybe if the goal was to end corporate capitalism then the honesty might create some educational value – around the world if not in the US.
3.) Support people in the South (false psychology?) How? Seems these small efforts would only give them false hope and false solidarity. Better to just send them some of the money we waste traveling around on the protest road shows.
What strategy will the anti-free trade protesters use? Now and later... We maintain that if any of these groups are honest, then they will quickly admit that they have no meaningful goals and that their strategies of education or mobilization cannot overcome the strong right wing drift of US political culture. To apply outdated techniques of organizing or resisting against such a force is to make yourself and your power meaningless and impotent. FACT: There is nothing people in the USA can do to stop USA imperialism from within the USA. – unless you are considering armed struggle, secession (moving masses of people to Vermont or Oregon?) or being able to mobilize millions of protesters who want to be beaten and imprisoned.
… Or so our/your logic and frankness would suggest. But we have a new idea – a thesis – that could re-invigorate and make powerful the movement for change in North America. We posit that everyone should cease working politically at any level in the USA – that they should refrain from all currently known forms of activism in the USA ( ecological, social or cultural) and instead put all of their energy, skills and finances into groups in South America – specifically groups in the Andes and in Venezuela.
Yes, the only activity of any real value to changing the world – to defeating capitalism and militarism – is to form a fundraising group.
USA people give almost 2 billion a year to environmental and social change groups, in the last year people gave the democratic party over 1 billion in dollars or assistance. – Imagine if just 10 percent of this money went to actually building resistance in South America – 300 million dollars !!!
Why cannot people in the USA do anything political to help people in the Andes?
Besides the fact that the USA has a very non-participative system of quasi-democratic republicanism, the following factors are important:
1. Large countries make lousy democracies; 2. The US Democratic party has been a willingly corrupt partner to the Republicans and corporate America; 3. (Probably the most important) Activists and educators in the US have misled the public and presented a dumbed-down version of what is wrong with the world/country and what needs to be done/sacrificed/endured. These factors have confused the electorate and left them ripe for the propaganda of the right. Awareness has declined and the lack of focus and solutions from the left and activists has turned off many people to involvement. This decline has affected environmental, social justice, anti-war and globalization campaigns and activists training. The debate on these issues and the need to change strategies and speak clearly have been suppressed or lacking. Many have warned that creating many single issue campaigns alienates the public and youth who want simple answers.
As we mentioned: The only way to aid the south is to send $ to a few small or medium sized civil society groups in a few key places – Why? Aren't there more and bigger groups? – No!
Well there are, but instead of sending your pay pal dollars to Venezuela’s government or an indigenous or campesino coalition in Bolivia, Peru or Ecuador, we feel that is better (attracts more donations, expands options, and limits US counter-propaganda) to target medium sized young groups involved in a variety of radical projects. As we get bigger (more money) we hope to fund more groups in more regions and activities.
You might think that we are being extreme to say that there is nothing you can do in the USA to aid the Andean Region (or anywhere) through politics or education. Think about it… If people get together in cities across the USA and focus on something that produces effects and signs of progress – like raising millions for important groups in the Andes, then they will both create a positive and growing movement in the USA and build up Andean groups too.
This success would encourage more people to get involved and in the process they would learn about struggle, about the real issues facing those who want change and about the struggle in Latin America. The movement in both regions will grow and people will see what money and cooperation can do.
Videos, articles for publication and visits back and forth can build stronger ties and spread the word and inspire even more organizing, more donations and more tangible results.
Instead of growing frustrated with the defeats that are inevitable in the USA – the failure to change anything – and even the reality that protest here – and lobbying can actually backfire and encourage the right wing or the ignorant voters to fight change more – activists can feel good and have victories. These People to People – or Pueblo a People campaigns can be proud and positive and real.
Move beyond political stalemate and make a real difference – Forget politics as you knew it – Do the politics of building global/hemispheric resistance. Forget politics, lobbying – forget all environmental, social justice and organizing in the USA – it will never work – never change anything soon – and it causes more problems than it solves.
Our group United-Students has decided to separate our activities. United Students will continue to speak out and tour the country trying to convince people to stop wasting their time on every kind of activism and politics. Andes Circle will focus its efforts on fundraising and indentifying groups that can make the best use of funding.
Summary Questions:
1. How are US politics relevant to the world’s problems or the threats of Empire?
2. How long do we have to achieve results or decide which strategies are effective?
3. What goals and strategies are meaningful and effective?
4. What weapons (forces) are available (people, ideas, hardware)?
5. What historical or theoretical examples support your conclusions (answers) ?
Superiority Of The 1960's
Reactionary 03.Dec.2004 03:17
Noam Chomsky doesn't understand that what's missing from today's dissidence is Romanticism. Everything is bled dry by political correctness and you're reduced to debating financial strategy and global trade agreements. MIT the epitome of anti-Romanticism. The quantity of the protests has grown but the quality has declined. Like my favorite people from the 60's-70's were the Irish Republican Army, the Bader Meinhoff Gang, and certain things about the Weather Underground. Not necessarily or primarily because of their politics but because they were Romantic. The women had long hair and were gorgeous. Especially that blonde from the Bader Meinhoff Gang. Now's there's just Naomi Klein. Ho hum. Jim Morrison is missing, John Lennon is missing. So no matter how big the protests are today you're missing soul the zetgeist is not with you or something. And you're not going to change anything and living humanity will just pass you by.
Anemic American Protesters
Reactionary 03.Dec.2004 04:10
This is really disgusting. How many times do you have to mention that Huxleyian, Brave New World term "collective". You're an undistinguishable, miscegenationist mess with no character or individuality. Why don't you stop dressing up Compromise in Hare Krishna terminology. I see your still quoting your corporate supporters America Online, Yahoo, CNN, BBC Online. It was Nike and Starbucks last time. I think the Puerto Rican might be on to something, the SSL message board is a way for the FBI to record the messages here.
Ignoring european Indymedia's?
someone 03.Dec.2004 10:05
Feature at de.indymedia.org:
http://de.indymedia.org/2004/11/99948.shtml
"5 Years Indymedia - 5 Years Seattle"
In Germany took place in several cities: one week of indymedia-birthday... conference, party, exposition, movies in 7 cinemas .. more: www.mag04.net
In London and Barcelona where also Indymedia-Birthday-Actions
Don't feed the Animals!!!!!
isolation 04.Dec.2004 08:17
Have you ever heard that expression before? Throwing money at the problem is not the answer. All that will happen is for these groups to become dependant even more on US influence and they will become a welfare dependant of the USA. Somehow the US protesters manage to raise enough money to meet day to day needs while still being free to take part in the "movement".
Indymedia has reported next to nothing on the Ukraine elections and how they have been able to fight for a fair election with NO resources!. One normal person in the Ukraine makes less than 5 people in America del Sur. Don't give me this junk about you needing our money.
LAst Comment - Racist (ANIMALS = the SOUTH) and Wrong
tina 05.Dec.2004 20:58
Don't feed the Animals!!!!! said:
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/up.html#Econ
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/bl.html
"" Throwing money at the problem is not the answer."" _ Bedises not addressing any of the relevant issues in the first comment - this fellow fails to say what is the answer - or why his silly expression is meaningful -
"these groups to become dependant even more on US influence" - Not sure if he understands the world at all form this - the idea is to make the revolutions happen sooner so they will be less dependetn and - the South would control the money and build independence - possibly room for debate here - but not until the person explains his ideas
"" US protesters manage to raise enough money to meet day to day needs while still being free to take part in the "movement". "" -- Not sure - again - what he thinks he is talking about -
He said: "" One normal person in the Ukraine makes less than 5 people in America del Sur. Don't give me this junk about you needing our money.""
HERE ARE SOME FACTS - though the situation in the UKRAINE is no doubt a bit worse now - so too it is getting worse in EC and bolivia -
UKRAINE: GDP - per capita:
purchasing power parity - $5,400 (2004 est.) -- Population below poverty line:
29% (2003 est.)
BOLIVIA GDP - per capita:
purchasing power parity - $2,400 (2004 est.) -- Population below poverty line:
70% (1999 est.)
ECUADOR : GDP - per capita:
purchasing power parity - $3,300 (2004 est.) -- Population below poverty line:
65% (2003 est.)
Europe The Measure Of All Things
Euro-Centrist 06.Dec.2004 06:18
The whole basis of Leftist ideology is cockeyed. What do leftists expect, that European civilization should have remained sedentary? The European discovery of North America was inevitable. If Columbus didn't then another European would have. There was no country there, so it cannot be colonization. On the contrary the indian tribes were in constant warfare with each other and massacred the non warlike tribes. Some tribes had such practices as slicing open a woman's nose and pulling the two halves apart as a punishment for adultery. They were mostly meat eating non vegetarians. They burnt Jesuit priests to death at the stake and skinned them alive. Black Africans were practicing a thriveing slave trade in other Black Africans for millienia and had no moral desire to end it, long before Europeans arrived and became the first people in human history to end slavery. QED.
Kill the VCIolnet iNdians?? COmments from other indy's
posting comments should be standard practice - NOW 07.Dec.2004 21:51
The last comment about Indigenous Americans being violent - is silly on the face of it - they didn;t commit any where near the violence on the environment or each other that the Europeans did - yey the writer justifies their murder because they were violnet -
For eduction and to see how funny Victoria indy can be check out these comment to the same article --
Summary Questions:
1. How are US politics relevant to the world’s problems or the threats of Empire?
2. How long do we have to achieve results or decide which strategies are effective?
3. What goals and strategies are meaningful and effective?
4. What weapons (forces) are available (people, ideas, hardware)?
5. What historical or theoretical examples support your conclusions (answers) ?
www.counterpunch.org
add your comments
A Narrow Escape!
by Guamanian • Thursday December 02, 2004 at 02:30 PM
"There is something very fishy (cultish) about all US activist groups... There is nothing political that any USA people can do... everyone should cease working politically... refrain from all currently known forms of activism... the only activity of any real value to changing the world – to defeating capitalism and militarism – is to form a fundraising group..."
I'm convinced! No alternatives! All has been revealed -- thanks to the piercing logic of the United Students, the veil has fallen from my eyes!
Where am I supposed to send all of my money again? Uh huh... care of United Students, you say? Uh huh... Sure -- here's my cheque!
That was a narrow escape! Thank God there is a wise and perceptive vanguard organization like United Students to reveal the truth and prevent me from becoming the mindless minion of some cult!
add your comments
Blindly...YOU WANT IT ALL NOW..!
by ted... (3 possibilities) • Thursday December 02, 2004 at 02:43 PM
# 1. stop trying marry activivsm with YOUR BAND OF CAPITALISM...!
Your capitalism depends on TANGABLE & VISABLE IMEDIATE MEASURABLE RESULTS....
Giving away something FOR FREE with no pre-conditions or "stings-attached", is NOT a capitalistic maxum...!
Charitable contibutions effect corprit income..., especially when it comes to PAYING THEIR TAXES...
(ie: no receipt, no donation..)
If there is nothing OF-BENIFIT in doing it,
capitalists don't do it....!
so cut the cap pal.
# 2."measuring results...? "
WTO protests.... the stopped the meetings..!
WTO's re-oginized "their' priorities...!
3rd world represenitives became EM-POWERED and spoke their minds about the effects of "GREEDY" corprit interests...
(this has had a lasting EFFECT on the WTO's aggenda to this day...)
sure that's NOT ENOUGH, (for this one example),
BUT IT'S A START...!
Another example (I'm sure your refering to this), is "Stopping the Iraq-War"...!
but look around,,,,, George Bush is one step closer to being charged with "WAR-CRIMES" including cimes against the peace, Mass-Muder, and "terorism".
Lastly, Paul martin said NO to Bush's Missile Defence Plan..
sure you can argue that his stance was a "pay-off" to Jack layton's NDP...
but, with-out the Anti-War movement, would layton have an issue...? (an issue he used, to buy "activist-votes")
Yup, we voted while you worked at the many jobs you have...,
(or want..!)
# 3. STOP, LOOK, and LISTEN...
maybe people DON'T WANT TO TALK TO YOU...!
you do come accoss like a brain-washed PR-FLAX,,,,
your either working fo somebody....., or you really need some help..!
----- The city of Portland has been ordered to $300.000.00 for injuring anti-war protesters...!!!
------------ Stop, Look and Listen pal -----
the CIA has fully infiltrated the "Main-steam-Media"...
Attacks and fighting anounced 3-weeks before they happened...?
We all saw the same news stories... 4 networks run those stories...!
for 3 weeks.... WE WERE FEED LIES....!!!!
Want more GOVERNMENT LIES & POPAGANDA...?
Listen to Amy-Goodman's headline stories today,
The pamphletes are full of racist-homophobic messages,,,
NOT TO MENTION, FAULSE FACTS...!
---- any ways ----- somebody else will respond to you BECAUSE,,,
nobody has all the answeres.....
THATS WHY SO MANY OF US ARE OUT ON THE STEETS PROTESTING "TOGETHER"...
so buddy, when your "limo" breaks down, your going to have to walk like the rest of us...!
(capitalism creates more poverty than weath) The world-wide GLUT of lumber, has caused many saw-mills in BC to close..
BC is not alone... Lumber is only one of several comodities sold on the stock exchange...
Show some back bone pal...
(hoping to 'get a pice of the action" is NOT THE SAME as garentee-ing everybody, gets an equal share...! )
Pehaps comodity stock-piling will longer be used as a tool, to EFFECT THE COMODITY-PRICES....
perhaps the cost of poduction, can again become a factor making up the final price.
------ look at Syn-Crude project in Alberta -- Canadian Tax-payes helped develope the techknology to extract oil from the sand...!
Tax-payers helped BEGIN-THE-TAR SANDS PROJECT...!
Tax payer money when in to building housing for the workers needed...!
Tax-payer money when into to suporting & trianing the work force needed...!
Tax-payer money went to the corperations to convince them to hire CANADIANS...!
If we paid fo the project,,, then why do corperations OWN the reasourse...?
(is it "free enter-prize"...? when the same companies finance the political campagns of people will WHO RIP-OFF THE GENERAL PUBLIC...) look around buddy... Ralph-Kine is also called "KING-RALPH".
Thnx Comment 1 + 2 SelfProven Ignorati -- by Can You Read - Can you add in your Heads • Thursday December 02, 2004 at 04:16 PM
we feel that is better (attracts more donations, expands options, and limits US counter-propaganda) to target medium sized young groups involved in a variety of radical projects. As we get bigger (more money) we hope to fund more groups in more regions and activities.
You might think that we are being extreme to say that there is nothing you can do in the USA to aid the Andean Region (or anywhere) through politics or education. Think about it… If people get together in cities across the USA and focus on something that produces effects and signs of progress – like raising millions for important groups in the Andes, then they will both create a positive and growing movement in the USA and build up Andean groups too.
We can only guess that the poor kids responding were so excited by their great illusions of VICTORY - Bush tried as a war criminal - Yea and I bet your mother loves you too. - Canada stands up to the US - Hah hah - The US owns Canada lock stock and silly Maple Leaf Barrels - you fool tools!
I have heard childish stuff but this is exemplary - Anti-globalization - how many masdters in Economics do you have - WHo taught you to speak out e=when you know nothing about the subject - THANKS FOR PROVING ALL OF OUR POINTS SO WELL _ Thwe CIA doesn't even have to pay you since you are so easily tricked into doing their (Bush's) job for him/them....
Try harderr and we might respond again -
** More evidence of faluty eyesight:
Our group United-Students has decided to separate our activities. United Students will continue to speak out and tour the country trying to convince people to stop wasting their time on every kind of activism and politics. Andes Circle will focus its efforts on fundraising and indentifying groups that can make the best use of funding.
Summary Questions:
1. How are US politics relevant to the world’s problems or the threats of Empire?
2. How long do we have to achieve results or decide which strategies are effective?
3. What goals and strategies are meaningful and effective?
4. What weapons (forces) are available (people, ideas, hardware)?
5. What historical or theoretical examples support your conclusions (answers) ?
Send money to above site or to
United Scammers -- by Guamanian • Thursday December 02, 2004 at 05:02 PM
I've worked for over 17 years with a community-based NGO that has directly funded effective small scale community/revolutionary projects throughout Latin America.
It's valuable work -- in a global context and in alignment with a hundred other modes of struggle both here and there.
However, to claim that it is the only effective mode of action and therefore must immediately replace all other modes of struggle is the most absurd, silly, doctrinaire crap that I have ever heard.
Your post is either pure stupidity, or a sophmoric scam. Either way... piss off!
I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together! -- by Alec the Walrus • Thursday December 02, 2004 at 06:00 PM
This is quite bizarre. I think they should limit their criticism to the Green Anarchists. *red wink*
Everybody sing!
I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together.
See how they run like pigs from a gun, see how they fly.
I’m crying.
Sitting on a cornflake, waiting for the van to come.
Corporation tee-shirt, stupid bloody tuesday.
Man, you been a naughty boy, you let your face grow long.
I am the eggman, they are the eggmen. I am the walrus, goo goo g’joob.
Mister city policeman sitting
Pretty little policemen in a row.
See how they fly like lucy in the sky, see how they run.
I’m crying, I’m crying.
Yellow matter custard, dripping from a dead dog’s eye.
Crabalocker fishwife, pornographic priestess,
Boy, you been a naughty girl you let your knickers down.
I am the eggman, they are the eggmen.
I am the walrus, goo goo g’joob.
Sitting in an english garden waiting for the sun.
If the sun don’t come, you get a tan
From standing in the english rain.
I am the eggman, they are the eggmen.
I am the walrus, goo goo g’joob g’goo goo g’joob.
Expert textpert choking smokers,
Don’t you thing the joker laughs at you?
See how they smile like pigs in a sty,
See how they snied. I’m crying. Semolina pilchard, climbing up the eiffel tower.
Elementary penguin singing hari krishna.
Man, you should have seen them kicking edgar allan poe.
I am the eggman, they are the eggmen. I am the walrus, goo goo g’joob g’goo goo g’joob.
Alec is not a walrus,-- by ted... (the joker laughs at me) • Thursday December 02, 2004 at 11:12 PM
Alec is NOT a Walrus.... He's more like an egg-man... -- oups.., He's more like Alec-X when he lay's down the lines...
and provides us with a history lesson once and while.
(he can really dig it up sometimes...)
----- I cetianly don't think he'd be re-gorgetating good old "Beattle-vomit"...! -----
Alec is a Walus...? I think that a good name, and you should use it...
Not to try and trash Alec,,,, but to express your own views.
------ Want to be the WALRUS...? ---------
Nobody else is using that name.... Be the Walrus...! (ie: there is always room for walrus's & egg-men.... and Alec, Jane Doe's, Kimbery-Rodgers and many many more too...!)
Pick your own id... Nobody needs to have their "phoney-idenitifications" RIPPED-OFF... (or somebody riding on your coat-tails)
Alec the Walrus -- by Alec • Friday December 03, 2004 at 05:01 AM
Thanks for watching my back Ted, but "Alec" and "Alec the Walrus" are one and the same.
Something about the first post on this thread instantly reminded me of the Beatles song.
" I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together!"
Guamanian Boastsd with ZERO PROOF -- by supporter of doing something • Friday December 03, 2004 at 06:55 PM
Dear Gauzimanian --
Now you have stuck your ole foot out into our mouth - so we expect you to explain or no longer post to indymedia anywhere-
Please answer a few - of the twice asked questions - or go for them all wise guy -
Explain any of your boasts about Bush, Protest etc, explain how they will change the world - Bush's World - tell us details and references on your 17 years of revolutionary projects - and tell us what to do
- ACTUALLY I THINK YOU OWE US AT LEAST A 5 PAGE synopsis of all your great brilliance and we are going to hound you off this site until you do - come on dude -
We have dealt with - and thought we slayed - a number of cults in the South West USA and in the North West of Turtle Isle - they still fear us when we come to town - but we have found now that we don't have to travel much to get the cults - we do it electronically - are U ready ??
Oh wow - betwen the 3 of us (the core collective ) we have 70 years experience working in many parts of the world and building revolutionary projects -
Show us yours and we will show you ours
- Until then Senor - fess up or cut out
The rational and easy way to examine how deep into a cult you are is to 1. Tell us your goals -= and where they lead 2. Tell us your strategies for attaining these goals - (cite theory and historical ex.) 3. Explain how your tactics fit your strategies (more rational ex.) - then discuss the possible shortcomings of your plan and the possible unintended outcomes -
Good luck - We have been giving this test to leaders around the world fro many years - AND THEY ALL HAVE FAILED - Terribly --
so sad - the little Yuppy Kids just can't hack the real world - or the reality of how dismal their belief structure is --- chum chum -- www.rebelion.org
go away mr.PR-FLAX -- by ted... (a rose by any other name) • Friday December 03, 2004 at 09:27 PM
I've only be on the island for 12years now....
Guaminman is very well knowen around victoria...
WHO THE F@CK ARE YOU, TO QUESTION THE WAY ARE DOING...?????
---- you come to our town like some kind of "Gingo" gunslinger,
tell us we're full of crap.,,,,,,
and threaten people....!
----- Who's paying you...? ----- CIA...? ------ obviously because yu attack the god to Cuba-project... Who's paying you....? Tom Ridge...?
because you seem to have some kind oof VESTED-INTEREST in breaking up victoria's activist groups...!
- Oh let me guess... your doing this your self.???..
(hopping to make "bownie points" contacts, and possible jobs... ie: death-squad member.)
------ clean up your message pal ------- attacking people for trying, is no way to build alliances
(obvious PR-FLAX )
CONFESS NOW...OUR BUSTED...!-- by ted... (the police noticed your attack) • Saturday December 04, 2004 at 09:02 PM
You have 2 day to confess your attacks against users of this web-site....
The RCMP have traced the email you sent to me...
------ You have 2 days to confess ... ----------
You have until Monday morning...! confess now... OR,
I will insisit on CRINIMAL-CHARGES monday morning...!
------- in my 8-years of working in the media, 3 people have gone to jail for making threats against me....
want to be #4, #5, and #6...?
-- Ps. -- because of those 3 death threats, telus-security watches my email account (I asked them to do it,) and I pay a small fee, for the peace of mind it gives me...!
THEY GOT YOUR IP'S from the email you sent....!!!!!!!! ( amiture idiots)
End of Discussion -- by Guamanian • Tuesday December 07, 2004 at 08:42 AM
United Students posted: "we are going to hound you off this site until you do... We have dealt with - and thought we slayed - a number of cults... they still fear us when we come to town... are U ready?"
I won't dialogue with individuals or organizations that threaten the users of the Victoria IMC web site with violence. This site has a policy of zero tolerance for threats, as per the editorial policy located at
Banned Material (Posts that will be removed)
- Libel, slander, defamation and abusive personal attacks.
- Death threats and threats of violence.
- Bombmaking instructions and similar paramilitary information
Over the past year, the person or group currently identifying themselves as 'United Students' has violated all three of these basic editorial policy requirements.
Damn. Damn. Double Damn - by Radhippie • Tuesday December 07, 2004 at 12:16 PM
The United Students movement is a right-wing scam. They accuse activists of doing the work of the CIA! They say our actions are useless! They have obviously not done their homework.
If they are, as they say, college students, then I strongly suggest they stop to think about the accomplishments of their elders, going far back into the 18th century. From labour laws to womens' rights it was the work of activists that changed society. Don't be fooled by fools who tell you they have the right answer and the collective wisdom of millions of activists is wrong. To quote from another famous musical act, the Dead Kennedys:
They're a bunch of liars,
They just want your money,
They just want your consciousness!
(Religious Vomit - Dead Kennedys - 1983, In God We Trust Inc.)
Quick tip to the posters from United Students... Don't piss off the moderators of a site you wish to spread your vile propaganda. You threatened members of this collective. That pisses me and the rest of us off, violates several of the IMC guidelines and is cause for banishment.
Grow up and when you do,
Farewell